John Smallmtn (00:01.311)

All right, everybody. Welcome to the very first episode of the Adapted Growth podcast. My name is John Hill. I’m the founder of Adapted Growth, and I have had to do some major adaptations on my path of development to the work that I do now.

This show specifically dives in with people who work in performance roles to look at some of the things they’ve learned along the way, key nuggets for others, how they go about vetting good opportunities now, and helping everyone else along the path.

Today we have Seth on the show. Seth is someone I’ve been connected with on LinkedIn for a little while, and when I floated the idea of doing the show, he was very interested in coming on to talk about it. So we’re going to be diving in with him. Seth, why don’t you take the wheel for a second and tell everybody who you are, what you do, a little bit of your background, and what you focus on in your work?

Seth Tilli (00:52.845)

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. I’m excited to be here on the first episode. This is a topic that I’m really passionate about.

Personally, I have 20 years of experience in sales and operations. All throughout my career, I’ve always been focused on continuous improvement—continuing to iterate on what I’ve done in the past and make it a little bit better. Last year, I decided to take that experience to go out on my own and start a consulting practice called The Hypergrowth Project. I really focus on Revenue Operations (RevOps) and business process optimization to help small businesses scale.

John Smallmtn (01:28.159)

Man, okay, let me talk about that for just a minute. Revenue Operations isn’t really new, but it’s gaining popularity. It’s becoming the new big, popular thing. Trying to bring these very complex processes down to small businesses is a bit of a fight because they don’t think of selling as a multi-stage process. Oftentimes in small business, they’re not concerned about tying sales results to churn events on the back end or marketing on the front end.

I’m curious: what makes you want to work with small business owners on this stuff? What calls you in that direction?

Seth Tilli (02:09.678)

It’s really the same thing that drove me when I was looking for a new opportunity or a new job. I wanted to look for a company where I could walk in and help build something bigger than myself—help grow something into something meaningful.

The reality is that when you are growing a business where you have employees whose livelihoods and families depend on what you’re doing and the success of what you do, it’s way more meaningful than just a job. So it’s something I enjoy, and I take pride in being able to help people create something better for themselves, their families, their employees, and their employees’ families. When you scale a business successfully and do it efficiently, you build a foundation that can survive generations. That’s what drives me to do this.

John Smallmtn (03:05.107)

A thousand percent. I love that. Small business is such an interesting realm, especially compared to enterprise stuff and larger sales. It’s still the Wild West in small business and entrepreneurship, especially when comparing it to the complexity of RevOps and some of these bigger enterprise organizations.

When we connected, you brought up something in conversation. You mentioned that you were going through a program to keep on that developmental path. Can you tell me a little bit more about the program you’re in and what motivated you to seek it out?

Seth Tilli (03:46.095)

Sure. I’m currently enrolled in the Advanced Certificate Program at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. It’s a program designed for executives as part of executive education that is practical and applicable. You can go through a class and immediately take what you’ve learned and apply it to your business to make an impact.

I started with the program kind of on a whim. In a previous role, we started talking about growth through acquisition and breaking into new markets, but nobody in the business had any experience in M&A, myself included. I immediately started looking into how I could do this. Growing up in Philadelphia, Wharton was always a big deal for me. You grow up in the shadow of UPenn. I ran the Penn Relays when I was in high school running track, so that was one of the first places I looked. I looked at other business schools as well, but the program at Wharton just spoke to me.

I specifically started with the Mergers & Acquisitions class. It was a little intimidating, but when I got there, it was extremely validating because I realized that I actually belonged there. I had the business acumen and the ability to work in this sphere of accomplished individuals. It was a fantastic experience learning from some of the top business minds in the world.

I enjoyed it so much that when I went out on my own and decided to start my practice, I knew there were always going to be areas for improvement. I fully believe in never stopping learning. As a manager, I was always looking for ways to provide professional development to help everyone who worked with me get better at what they did.

I thought about going back to get my MBA, but as I thought about it more, I realized that the last 20 to 25 years of my career is my MBA. I know how to do that stuff and I’ve built that expertise, but I wanted current, practically applicable knowledge. That’s what this program provides. It’s been an incredible experience continuing that journey of refining my own skillset while meeting and interacting with incredible people from around the world.

John Smallmtn (06:46.495)

Man, thank you. I love that. A friend of mine from here got into Wharton, and I had no idea what Wharton was at the time. But he was a super smart guy—always talking about Japan, taught himself Japanese—he was a total nerd like us. He was like, “Man, I got into Wharton!” And I said, “What is Wharton?” He said, “You don’t know what Wharton is?” That was my first brush with it. Then I did some research—holy crap, a very prestigious school.

You said something about going into that room and sitting down with those people, and how it validated your experience. Everyone on this path at a certain stage deals with imposter syndrome and the “fake it till you make it” dynamic. Did you carry any of that before this program? Does it feel different now? Is that something you’ve struggled with in the past?

Seth Tilli (07:45.425)

I still struggle with it. I think if you’re a high-achieving individual, you always will.

John Smallmtn (07:51.903)

The minute I get comfortable in a situation, I’ll push for some growth, level up, and start working with bigger clients. Then the feeling is there again, and I can choose to wallow in it or go prove out that it’s not a concern. I’ve been wondering over the past year and a half: does it ever really go away? Part of the hallmark of being someone who is constantly trying to improve is that it probably doesn’t.

Seth Tilli (08:26.385)

If you don’t have that doubt, you think you’re as good as you could be and that the work you’re doing is as good as it will ever get. If you’re not doing inner reflection, you’re missing something and you’re not going to grow.

John Smallmtn (08:47.679)

We’re on the same page there. It was always super frustrating to me as a strategic person coming into some lower-level sales roles where no strategy was needed—you just had to go out and do a high volume of activity. That was frustrating because I always want to bring a level of strategy to my engagements and client work. You can’t be strategic in a sales role that doesn’t call for strategic actions. It was a bad fit for a very long time until I finally found my lane.

Now, there’s a greatness that happens when you’re a revenue professional. That’s the label I like to use, because whether you’re a founder who sells, a salesperson, or a marketer, everyone is trying to figure out how to move people along the path. These are all high-performance roles; if you can’t do the job, you can’t stay. There is a level of chaos that you’re there to manage, figure out, and plot a way through. You either figure it out or you don’t.

Whenever someone finds the right type of sale at the right level, with the right market and process, I believe anybody can do this job and do it well. But the hard part is culture, incentives, and how people are taught, trained, and coached.

Transitioning a bit: coming out of the Wharton program—or as you continue going through it—what has changed for you when you think about your craft? Are there data points that you now hold as more important than before? How has your appreciation of your craft changed with the knowledge you’re learning?

Seth Tilli (10:38.769)

It has certainly been reinforced by the idea of standardization and building something repeatable. In all the classes I’ve taken, the topic of making processes repeatable comes up constantly. That is crucial in sales. If you want to perform at a large scale, you have to have a simplified, refined, and standardized process that can be repeated over and over again. If you’re reinventing the wheel every single time you pick up the phone, it’s not going to be efficient and you won’t be able to keep things organized.

I’m a huge advocate for CRMs—HubSpot in particular. Although, as it has gotten bigger, it has lost some of its allure personally.

John Smallmtn (11:29.631)

Really? I go the other way.

Seth Tilli (11:35.633)

As it got bigger, more features came in and it got great. But now, beyond the enterprise level, it’s getting more bureaucratic with more division of features where you get one thing but don’t get another. That annoys me.

John Smallmtn (11:54.527)

100%. It seems like it’s now tottering on the same verge as Salesforce: you had better have an admin who can run it, or else you’re not going to get your money’s worth or the value out of it, and it becomes a very expensive tool that you never actually implemented properly.

I had a very early experience with HubSpot and hated it due to a rough interaction with one of their sales representatives, so I decided not to support the tool. I went in the Pipedrive direction when I first started out, and that tool was helpful on my path. We represent Pipedrive, but we did a project last year with HubSpot and it has come so far. I was really impressed with it. So it’s interesting to hear the conflicting opinion that it’s getting too big and losing some of its greatness.

Seth Tilli (12:48.562)

When I started working with HubSpot in 2017, it was very early on, and my skillset grew along with the platform. I remember it being lean, mean, and super intuitive. I stop short of calling it “Salesforce-esque” because it’s not a bare shell that you have to bolt a bunch of third-party apps onto.

John Smallmtn (13:20.351)

Yeah, it’s a different philosophy than Salesforce. They are trying to achieve the same end for different audiences and with different approaches. I try very hard not to call it “Salesforce Light.”

Going back to the idea of standardization: I’m obviously a big believer in the sales process. Where do you think people get sideways when building consistency? Where do they jump the shark, get ahead of themselves, or put the cart before the horse?

Seth Tilli (14:00.116)

Messaging is critical—understanding what your audience is actually looking for when you’re trying to sell a product or service. You have to look at yourself as a problem solver—someone who walks in to help address a specific issue and provide a product that meets their business needs.

If you go into a meeting with the mindset of, “I have to make a sale, I have to win this transaction,” that’s all it will ever be. Your demeanor, tone, and the way you talk to them will reflect that, creating a high-anxiety environment. They will likely have their guard up, and you won’t get anywhere. You’ll win some—there are always some you win—but you won’t be super successful.

If you walk in thinking, “I’m going to try to help this person,” or, “I want to build a long-term relationship where we are business partners and when they thrive, I thrive,” that’s a completely different conversation. Your tone and demeanor will be relaxed and approachable. The stigma of sales as negative persuasion is a piece people don’t focus on enough.

The process part comes down to time management. If you’re going to sell at a high level, you will have more than you can reasonably keep track of in your head. That’s why it’s so important to have a system. Even if it’s just a spreadsheet, you have to have something.

John Smallmtn (15:46.015)

When I started this business, it wasn’t to coach, do placements, or handle recruiting like I do now. I just wanted to build CRMs for people because it provided the feedback loop that allowed me to stop lying to myself. Before that, I was like everyone else: blame bad leads, say the prospect doesn’t get it, and so on. But after playing poker, working with a coach, and using software that created a feedback loop, I improved based on my ability to stop lying to myself.

Initially, my business partner brought in a CRM, and I resisted, saying, “I’ve used these in corporate. They’re garbage, expensive, and never work.” He suggested we just try it. We were working with a sales coach who talked about building a system and managing pipeline deals. I was trying to hold it all in my head, which created anxiety and kept me stuck. The CRM was my way through.

When I started the business, I went around telling everyone, “You need a CRM, you need a CRM!” Now, I love it whenever someone at least uses a spreadsheet—anything better than letting everything live in their head, because human recall is poor. We think we’re good at multitasking, but we aren’t.

You have to build that feedback loop in an approachable way, or you’ll avoid using it. In sales, there was always the board displaying clear numbers of where you are and where you need to be. When people buy massive systems like HubSpot or Salesforce, hire salespeople, and launch cold email campaigns without doing the foundational work, it turns into an expensive miss because they tried to scale ideas without having real market conversations.

Sticking to standardization: what should people be standardizing first? If you work with a client where nothing is standardized, what do you zero in on first to flush out that process?

Seth Tilli (18:54.839)

We have to look at everything as a whole—not just sales or operations. It’s about where the customer starts, where they end, and everything in between, including before and after that timeline.

John Smallmtn (19:15.416)

How many times have you been in a conversation where you want to discuss messaging and copy before the sales call, and people look at you funny because they think, “You’re just the sales guy, why does that matter?” Or when I ask about the onboarding process, they say, “John, why do you care about onboarding?” Well, onboarding creates the relationship after the sale! If it sucks, they’re going to come back to me.

And when I ask what happens when people churn, they ask, “Why do you care about that?” It’s because the whole ecosystem is tied together. People who leave often churn because we didn’t meet expectations or do a good job qualifying them. In a service-driven business, you have to qualify for standardization.

When I moved from corporate to medical devices, and then worked with a buddy on a small web project, I was closing deals with terrible fits. We brought on a project manager so I didn’t have to manage delivery, thinking I could just go sell more. But I was making that project manager’s life hell because I wasn’t qualifying for fit or intention—I was selling purely on price, being cheaper than competitors.

My business partner told me, “John, you have to stop. They have to want to work the way we work. If they don’t, you need to find the nicest, easiest way to break their heart.” That was the craziest thing I had ever heard, but you have to sell to your expectations and differentiators, or you’re just seen as a commodity.

When prospects view you as a commodity, their guard is up because they think everyone is identical except for cost. Why would they lower their guard for a deep discovery conversation if you’re just treating it as a transaction?

Does that ring true in your experience? Do you get pushback when looking at the holistic process, or when you advocate for qualifying bad fits out in the name of standardization? Where does that friction show up for you with small business clients?

Seth Tilli (22:17.625)

It shows up often if I haven’t done a thorough job in the qualification and discovery of the client. I had to learn that early on because being a consultant was new to me, and I was flying the plane as I was building it.

If a client didn’t understand why I was looking at the business holistically, they would say, “I just want more sales.” And I’d reply, “Okay, well, this is how we’re going to achieve that.” Often, the business was too small to make that level of investment yet. As a business owner yourself, you understand that money comes directly out of your pocket, so you have to be considerate and understanding.

It comes down to getting all those pieces to work together and deciding which one to address first. For me, I always improve the sales process first to ensure they can stay organized and approach sales systematically. Once that process is in place, they’re selling properly, and revenue starts coming in, the question becomes: how are we going to support that new revenue?

From there, I look at operations and customer experience. Customer experience is a huge deal. I’m an investor and advisor for a startup called Urban Finance, which is close to my heart. The first thing I did working with them was review the customer experience during intake, onboarding, and platform usage. If the customer experience isn’t intuitive and low-friction, you lose that potential long-term relationship forever.

Ensuring a great customer experience is the name of the game: a great sales experience, seamless onboarding, and immediate value from the product or service without requiring excessive effort.

John Smallmtn (24:34.911)

I know a lot of consultants and RevOps professionals who run into the attitude of, “Well, that’s not my problem. I told them what to do and they’re just not doing it.” You’re on borrowed time if that’s how you operate. You have to want to figure out why it’s difficult for them, rather than resting on your laurels and blaming the client. You sold it to them, took their money, and worked with them—they aren’t the idiots here. We have to be better than that.

That’s why the first place I start is talking to their best customers. If they have customers on the verge of churning, I want to have a quick conversation with them too. Clients ask, “John, shouldn’t you be closing new deals?” And I tell them, “I can’t close good deals until we know what a good deal actually looks like from your customers’ perspective, not yours.”

Now for a hard question, since you’re a HubSpot advocate: when should a business jump into a tool like HubSpot? What are the early warning signs or triggers? Is it a specific revenue metric, headcount, or reaching product-market fit? In your opinion, when should a small business transition to these higher-tier tools?

Seth Tilli (26:09.531)

I don’t think there’s necessarily a hard number because there are so many options that are free. You have the ability to utilize HubSpot for free. That jump point could be when the features don’t meet your needs anymore, and you need to use some of the things in that feature set that are going to help you do more. Or if the platform you’re on is no longer meeting your needs, you need to look for another one that will meet your needs.

It’s such a fundamental part of the foundation that you build to scale a business that you have to have it from day one. Even if you don’t fully get the use out of it yet, it’s free, so who cares? It’s when the feature set meets your needs and when it doesn’t that you start to reevaluate it.

John Smallmtn (27:03.391)

I like that. In your opinion, when should someone be bringing on salespeople, and when should they be bringing on marketing and content? I know there’s going to be nuance and depth to it because every situation is different, but I’m curious what you’re looking for in those situations to indicate that it’s time to bring on salespeople or time to bring on marketing and content so that it’s easier for the person to sell. Do you have any thoughts about a standard process that maybe most people aren’t doing, but might serve them better?

Seth Tilli (27:37.531)

Founders should always be the first salespeople. There’s a level of connection to the work, the day-to-day, the passion, and the purpose behind any company or service that has to come from the founder, so they have to do that. The most successful ones are going to be where the founder has been out there pounding the pavement.

The point to bring in salespeople is when you have more business than you can reasonably keep up with. There is a limit, whether we want to admit it or not. You can say there’s no cap, but there’s always a cap—there’s only so much time in the day and only so many things you can do.

John Smallmtn (28:23.423)

There’s always a cap. You’re only going to pay for so much server space, let’s be honest about it. There is a cap, for sure.

Seth Tilli (28:31.708)

Exactly. Eventually, you get the iCloud notification that you have to buy more storage.

John Smallmtn (28:38.007)

Even with these SaaS platforms, there is a delivery component on SaaS. It’s often pretty negligible because it’s software-driven, but there is still a cost. With some of these bigger tools that are more customized from the get-go, if customers are leaving as quickly as they’re hopping in, someone is missing the points of differentiation here. That feature set is not connecting with the actual needs of the people who were buying.

Okay, different question for you, because now we’re just going to get into the weeds and I’m going to ask you a bunch of sales nerd questions: What do you think the most important part of development is for a salesperson?

Seth Tilli (29:28.060)

The most important part of development has to be the mindset I mentioned earlier: that you’re there to help solve a problem and deliver value, not just to sell a product. The ability to articulate what that value is—that is the single most important thing. If you can’t articulate the value of what you do or the product that you’re selling, forget it. You’re done; your company’s done.

There’s something I talked about on a podcast I just recorded with Fahim Musa, who is really great at being able to articulate value and helping others do the same: if you can’t very concisely let someone know what the value is that you bring, you’re wasting their time. They have a finite amount of time to do what they need to do. If you can’t show them how important what you’re talking about is in a very short timeframe, they have to move on with their lives and do something that is valuable. Being able to deliver a message that is information-dense, concise, and illustrates the value that you can bring is absolutely mission-critical.

John Smallmtn (30:45.503)

Speaking of being concise: one time, I actually got turned down for a sales role after getting through the final interview process for a SaaS tool. They said, “Well, John, we don’t really like you for this role.” I asked why, and they said, “Well, you’re not very succinct.”

It just speaks to this idea that everyone has a perception of what’s going to happen in these conversations. Even depending upon who I’m talking to, how I describe myself changes a little bit. If I’m talking to a sales producer, I am a sales coach. If I’m talking to a founder, I’m a sales process consultant. For some people, I’m just a founder, which usually means those people just want to sell me stuff.

Seth Tilli (31:48.764)

For those two, you’re also a therapist.

John Smallmtn (31:51.615)

100%, man. I give people a lot of room to vent about the uncontrollable, but I don’t give anyone room to complain about bad luck. In my development path as a martial artist, a poker player, and now doing what I do, you need space to vent—as long as that venting includes reflecting on whether you made a mistake. You’re supposed to be reflective and look at it. If you can’t do that, you’re part of the problem, in my opinion.

Next question: When should a founder bring on a Head of Sales?

Seth Tilli (32:42.813)

That is a very good one, and I have somewhat conflicting thoughts on that idea.

I’ve seen this more than once where the founder typically is managing sales, but they aren’t a sales manager. Literally, founders have said to me, “I’m a really bad sales manager. I haven’t done anything with them.” When running the business is taking more time away from you than you are able to give back to the sales team, you have to address it. Otherwise, the sales team isn’t going to be held accountable, and you won’t be able to coach them or see the areas where they need to make adjustments to grow and be successful.

John Smallmtn (33:36.063)

I love that answer. In the beginning, it’s hard to get a founder to realize that they’re wearing too many hats and there’s too much going on. Honestly, one of the things I look for in my client work is that I almost want that founder to have a death grip on sales. If they have that death grip on it, it’s usually because it’s working.

A lot of people reach out to consultants because it’s not working and it’s almost a sinking ship. You have to be careful with the opportunity cost of being a consultant, because if all your client outcomes are garbage, it’s hard to maintain a reputation in the marketplace.

How do you vet for good client work? Do you have any tried-and-true questions you use to determine whether someone isn’t ready or if you aren’t the right one to help them? What indicates it’s going to be a great relationship?

Seth Tilli (34:41.373)

It’s a focus on the business itself, as opposed to just sales. As a founder wearing all these hats, you have to recognize that they all matter. Sales is the driving force behind the business funding everything that’s happening, but all that other stuff exists to handle the new business coming in. If you focus 100% on sales and all the other operations are from the dollar store, it’s not going to work. It’s like a Ferrari with a Pontiac engine. You can’t just pick one part of it—you have to view the business holistically.

John Smallmtn (35:29.311)

I like that a lot: it’s not just a sales problem.

Going back to Wharton and professional development: as a sales professional, marketer, or founder, you have to be developing yourself. Lots of people have opinions on coaches, courses, and development paths. Going through the Wharton program now, you are very self-driven on your path of improvement. Does it matter to you if the people you work with are also on that developmental path?

Seth Tilli (36:12.957)

It does. If I’m going to work with a sales team, a core, fundamental focus is going to be professional development so they get better at what they do. I’ve always viewed a management role not as managing people, but as helping them do their job better. The best way to do that is to help them improve their skillset and how they approach their day-to-day.

You have to have people who have an open mind. That is one of the main criteria I use when hiring sales reps: Are you willing to come in and do something different, or do you just want to come in and insist, “This is my way of doing it and you’re not going to tell me otherwise”? That’s not going to work. I’m not saying I know everything, but there has to be give-and-take.

John Smallmtn (37:19.743)

For sure. One of the best lines I ever heard in a sales interview was from a guy named Beau. I didn’t get the role because he decided to hire a buddy he’d worked with previously—though that hire didn’t last. In the interview, Beau said, “John, you don’t have to do it my way. You can do it your way and be wrong, though.”

I left that meeting not knowing how to feel about that line. Did it mean I wouldn’t get any training? It sounded important, but I didn’t know how to think about it.

Now, when I do reach-outs to connect with salespeople looking for roles, it’s hard for me to get excited about bringing in someone who hasn’t put any effort into their own development. On the sales side, there are people selling programs that guarantee a six-figure income. You see it on LinkedIn, Facebook, and online communities. How do you feel about that?

I have a course and I’m a coach, but I don’t require people to buy my program—they get access to it when they come to work for my clients. How do you feel about courses and coaches, and whether they’re worth it? Now that you’re pursuing higher education at Wharton, have your thoughts shifted? Is college more important to you now, or is it still about drive and self-development?

Seth Tilli (39:42.400)

I’m in a program that can objectively be viewed as prestigious, but I’m also on YouTube, podcasts, and LinkedIn going through entry-level training courses or tutorials because I might walk away with one piece of information that is new, or an “I can’t believe I forgot about that” moment. You have to be learning in every way at any given point without judgment.

I don’t care where your credentials are from—Wharton, Harvard, Kellogg, Stanford, whatever. That doesn’t automatically mean what you’re saying is useful, accurate, or helpful. You have to take that information in, process it, and judge for yourself how you’re going to apply it, or if it’s something you even want to apply.

I was fortunate enough to self-finance my program—whereas most people have their companies pay for it—because I believed in that investment enough to make it. But not everybody has that ability, and there are other ways to learn. I look for new information from all sources without judgment until I process the information, and then I make my judgment from there.

John Smallmtn (41:24.959)

I love that. Who do you follow where you find good, practical information—not fluffy stuff, but content deeply connected to real work?

Seth Tilli (41:48.674)

Chris Walker stands out for me. He’s the former CEO of Refine Labs and recently started a new company called Passetto. He was the first person I saw who was really challenging the status quo of what is expected in marketing, especially regarding the metrics people look at. His information is very data-driven, and as an analytical person, I’m all about data. He isn’t prophesying about what’s going on; he’s looking at compiled client data to see what works, what doesn’t, and where the problems lie.

Marketing was an area where I admittedly needed to do more work. I’m not naturally in that space; in fact, I failed in that space previously.

John Smallmtn (42:51.423)

I would love to dive into that for a second. You said you failed in the marketing component—how did you know that you failed? What data points did you look at? Did you know you were failing at the time, or did what you learned at Wharton show you that you were on an impossible path?

Seth Tilli (43:22.082)

It was a combination of things. At the time, I was Head of Sales, and I naturally inherited being the Head of Marketing too. In a small business, you wear many hats—I had about 15 of them, and that was one.

Ultimately, the results weren’t there, which was a black-and-white indicator. In retrospect, and through the perspective gained from my professional development, I realized that when you reach a certain scale, you need specialization. You can’t be a Swiss Army knife across departments when managing a $50 million business. Aside from being a tall task, it’s just not going to work well because too much requires full focus.

John Smallmtn (44:22.367)

That makes sense. We’re running out of time, so I’m going to jump ahead a bit. What’s your favorite sales book?

Seth Tilli (44:33.698)

One that was recommended to me by a former employer was How to Become a Rainmaker—that cuts right to the core. On the management side, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team.

John Smallmtn (44:55.711)

Patrick Lencioni kills it. Getting Naked is one of my favorite books ever and really shattered my thinking on a lot of things.

What about marketing books? Are there any marketing books you’ve found particularly useful on your path?

Seth Tilli (45:21.505)

Not specifically, unfortunately. None have really spoken to me. I’ve read maybe half a dozen, but none made me say, “Oh yeah, that’s great.”

I’ll probably get in trouble for this, but my marketing professor from Wharton wrote a book that I still haven’t read yet, but I need to. He was the best professor I’ve had so far—Professor Raju. He was amazing.

John Smallmtn (45:53.951)

When he sees this clip, he’s going to be very frustrated that you haven’t read his book yet!

Seth Tilli (45:58.146)

Yeah, I’m actually on campus next week, so I’ll have to say something to him.

John Smallmtn (46:03.671)

What do you think is the most outdated piece of advice that people are still touting in sales, leadership, and marketing that we need to stop saying?

Seth Tilli (46:20.578)

I don’t know if I could name just one thing because I’m so dismissive of that stuff. You get immune to it from receiving so many cold emails and ridiculous robocalls. I’ve become so impervious to antiquated idioms that I don’t even pay attention to them anymore.

John Smallmtn (46:56.391)

It wears me out to read all the “sales savage” advice like “don’t take no for an answer.” It shuts down the ability to be strategic, thoughtful, and solution-focused.

If someone were starting brand new today and wanted to consult on growth, what advice would you give them to reduce their ramp-up time and avoid some of the pain?

Seth Tilli (47:46.146)

Spend the time to build out a repeatable structure. On my early discovery calls, I was making it up as I went, stumbling, and not getting the right information or coming across professionally.

Even if that initial structure isn’t great, put a structure together so that you’re hitting all your points, and then build on it from there. Take the time not to cut corners, and don’t let your clients force you to cut corners either.

John Smallmtn (48:29.055)

Sometimes there’s pressure to take bad shortcuts, and you have to realize you wouldn’t want those tactics used on you, so why do them to anyone else? We didn’t even get into the moral ground of what we do, so there might have to be a Part 2 in the future if you’re open to coming back.

Seth Tilli (48:46.690)

Of course! It’s been a great conversation. If you have the conviction to be a consultant, you need to stand by your convictions and know why what you’re doing is important without cutting corners.

John Smallmtn (49:04.063)

That’s a super good point. As an introvert, all of this is adjusted behavior for me. That’s why I talk so much about Kung Fu—it’s the process of taking reflexive ideas and training them into intentional action. My personality leads me to overthink, avoid conflict, and want clear systems. You have to know if your actions are reflexive or intentional. If it’s intentional, cool—you’ve done the work. If it’s reflexive, you need to figure out why.

To wrap up: Is there anyone you think I should have on the show next? Who should I reach out to and say, “Seth sent me your way”?

Seth Tilli (50:26.691)

There’s someone I connected with recently from the Philadelphia area who is part of Fractionals United: Tyron Robinson. He has been consulting for a long time and focuses heavily on this space.

John Smallmtn (50:53.599)

Awesome. I will gladly reach out and see if he wants to come on the show.

Seth, I really appreciate you coming on. We didn’t know each other well before this, so I appreciate you being willing to hop on, open up, and talk about your path. Where can people go to learn more about you and your work or get in contact with you?

Seth Tilli (51:16.868)

I’m on LinkedIn, and I have a website: hypergrowthproject.com. You can learn more about my services there. I’m focused on helping small businesses grow, scale, and build better opportunities for founders and their employees.

John Smallmtn (51:38.911)

Awesome, Seth. I really appreciate it. We’ll get this published, and hopefully, it leads to some cool conversations for you. Talk to you soon.

Seth Tilli (51:45.026)

Thank you, John. I appreciate it—this was a lot of fun. Bye.